You Heard It Hear First

[big_kev]

Ok you want the truth.......think you can handle the truth........here it comes then.

 

The UK government and its allies in the USA and Europe are in a panic.

Recent reports over the last few years have indicated that the natural reserves of fossil fuels have been grossly underestimated.

There is only a fifth available from what was originally thought.

The outcome of this is that by 2010 the production of Oil and Gas will peak and decline afterwards leading to chaos and anarchy.

 

Fuel prices will rocket and Gas and Electricity prices will rocket to ridiculously high levels, you will be able to light your home but not heat it or cook conventionally.

Cars will only be for the extremely rich, people will once again become isolated communities with public transport being the only option for traveling reasonable distances.

 

The panic has started..........if the general public find out the truth they will stockpile making matters worse.

How to get people to use less fuel..." lets make fuel bad"....launch Green campaigns....everyone cares about the enviroment and the little furry animals.

 

Global warming...been happening since the last ice age...scaaary....that should work....lets let people think they are causing it buy running cars and burning too much fuel...that will get them to cut down.

 

The average Joe Public thinks small scale as we all do....he doesn't realise how big the Earth is....he will think his little contribution to pollution will matter.

The rise in carbon emmisions cause global warmin....eh no...global warming causes the rise in carbon emmisions ( the sea gets warmer basically and releases its dissolved Carbon ...scientific fact ).

 

Tax the hell out of anyone using what is deemed to be excess fuel......public will consent as they will think it is for the good of the planet...and as the poorer people will see this as a tax on the richer people...easy winner.

Diesel fuel......vastly more ecomomical for cars.....however reserved for public transport and industry....hit it more than petrol..stop car owners using it.

 

Right thats the western world taken care of.......big....big...problem arises.

What were seen as third world countries are now starting to use fossil fuels as they develop.

This can't be allowed to continue....force them to use "greener" methods....even though they are totally impractical.

Get the Africans to build windfarms and use Solar fuel......your having a laugh.

 

What about the existing reserves of Oil and Gas.

North Sea Gas has already effectively run out...the previous Conservative Government converted nearly all the old coal power stations to gas to avoid being held to ransom by the miners again...the corrupt existing Labour Governement continued this practise instead of going nuclear.

 

Fuel and especially gas has started to rocket already.

We must have those reserves...where are they....mainly middle east and Eastern Europe

Lets get control of the middle east reserves........got Iraq ( bad guy there easy excuse )......working on Afghanistan..( training ground for terrorists easy excuse )....

 

Iran next....( done nothing wrong recently....how can we find a way in ? ).

[Bigjeeze]

Do you by any chance read the Sun, Mail, Express or Mirror?

 

Paranoia - it's not such a big word!!

 

If everyone takes a little piece of me - say 1 gram then after the first million I am down 1 million grams which is 1 tonne - Strangely I don't weigh a tonne ( OK I am fat ) . So if everyone in the UK (approx 60m) saves 50kg of carbon output per year - that's 3 million tonnes - and 50Kg is not really a lot at all. Even if it doesn't fix any problems it has to help. I accept the UK is a small player in the world stakes but every little helps.

 

I agree the UK Gov is taking the mickey and using the situation to generate tax revenue but that doesn't mean the issue isn't real.

[big_kev]

The issue is real but has nothing to do with carbon content increasing.....as I said before this is a scientific fact.....global warming causes carbon content to rise as the oceans get warmer they release the dissolved CO2.....easily proven as shown in the fossil records.

 

 

 

I suppose you are going to tell me that the last ice age ended due to man's interference and hence the planet got warmer ?

 

Never seen any cave paintings of Range Rovers... therefore I assume that they did not have any back then !

 

 

 

Must have been something else that caused the earth to get warmer.....let me think...I know....that big warm thing in the sky...that strangely makes the planet its current temperature in the first place.....I wonder if its heat output changed would it affect the temperature of the earth.....

 

Difficult one this......

 

 

 

Answer below...

 

 

 

 

 

Of course it bloody well would....Global warming is caused by the change in the sun's heat output.....again scientific fact.

[Bigjeeze]

I am sure I am going to regret this - but what and where are your facts from?

[Scorpiorefugee]

Very stimulating Kev.

 

I'd like to comment on one or two points.

 

First, The UK government does not have any allies (apart from a few members of the old commonwealth). There are a lot of self interested nations out there who will jump on any bandwaggon if it suits them and if they can go along for the ride without paying, or better still gain some credit and other benfits whilst putting nothing in, they might even get around to making a decision. Sadly, a lot of individuals in the UK are adopting the same attitude.

 

The US seems to be the only nation with a sense of responsibility as shown by their intervention in the Baltic states while the rest of the UN was sitting down with it's thumb in it's bum and brain in neutral. Sadly, with the best of intention it does some bloody silly things, especially with it's choice of presidents.

 

Second, the answer to global warming, the meaning of life and everything is that nobody knows. Much of the comments above actually relate quite well. One thing is certain. There are only a limited amount of resources and if we. and that means everybody, does not stop being irresponsibly selfish, it is all going to go badly wrong. We may not have to wait for that to happen because some great leader of one of the great nations will, with the support of some of his/her 'allies' acting along the lines previously described, will precipitate premature disaster.

 

Third, as far as governments are concerned, we get what we elect which does at least stop anyone in this country getting into an unassailable position. Sadly, this last lot have created new standards of incompetance. They've turned surplus into growing deficit, started a war which no-one can win, alienated more of the rest of the world than any other previous government and have achieved this by managing to remove anyone from government who shows any promise by a vareity of infathomably devious means. Furthermore, they have created the myth of a growing health economy based on cheap foreign imports, cheap foreign labour and selling off what is left of the nation to pay for it.

 

Just to prove that we are governed by idiots. Years ago we had a nationalised transport system and no-one died.

 

I can only add that I hope that one of the many Gods out there can save us.

 

 

:16: :16: :16:

Edited April 3, 2007 by Scorpiorefugee

[big_kev]

I am sure I am going to regret this - but what and where are your facts from?

 

Every scientific study ever carried out into the matter.......plus a fair proportion of common sense.

[big_kev]

Very stimulating Kev.

 

I'd like to comment on one or two points.

I can only add that I hope that one of the many Gods out there can save us.

 

 

:16: :16: :16:

 

I agree with your first point, there is a whole industry founded around the carbon emmission myth, these people will do everything they can to safeguard there livelihoods.

 

Second point, I know

 

Third point, yep the government are a bunch of crooks and friends of terrorists and other such scum, totally agree.

[El Dingo]

Funny, I never thought that BigJ would be fat.

Y'know, you get this kind of mental picture... anyway.

 

Yes, it is true. CO2 increases due to global warming, not the other way around. I have the data.

[Ivor_E_Tower]

Strange...I now work for a company that supplies oil and gas exploration companies. We're getting busier all the time. The "problem" now is that most of the reserves are in deep water areas so specialist equipment (more special than otherwise!) is required - has to be able to cope with the severe pressures from operating at depths of maybe 4000 metres. Do not panic, there is still plenty of oil and gas left. In fact, gas reserves are predicted to overtake those of oil in the next few years

[mumof4]

Funny yopu mention all this..im readin a rebus book and it goes on about gas and oil

[big_kev]

Strange...I now work for a company that supplies oil and gas exploration companies. We're getting busier all the time. The "problem" now is that most of the reserves are in deep water areas so specialist equipment (more special than otherwise!) is required - has to be able to cope with the severe pressures from operating at depths of maybe 4000 metres. Do not panic, there is still plenty of oil and gas left. In fact, gas reserves are predicted to overtake those of oil in the next few years

 

Almost verbatim for what wa ssaid about north sea oil...........that was a pack of lies as well.

[familyman]

All this stuff about greenhouse gases, carbon footprints ( WTF? ) is just another form of social control so we don't question what's really going on . It's all smoke and mirrors .These people couldn't lie straight in bed

[Bigjeeze]

Strange...I now work for a company that supplies oil and gas exploration companies. We're getting busier all the time. The "problem" now is that most of the reserves are in deep water areas so specialist equipment (more special than otherwise!) is required - has to be able to cope with the severe pressures from operating at depths of maybe 4000 metres. Do not panic, there is still plenty of oil and gas left. In fact, gas reserves are predicted to overtake those of oil in the next few years

 

Almost verbatim for what wa ssaid about north sea oil...........that was a pack of lies as well.

 

Ok Kev - WHo will you believe then? As far as I am aware Ivor is no politician - but what he says is backed up by freely available data - so why don't you check it out instead of relying on the comical papers and dubious tv programmes. I have no doubt we are lied to in all sorts of ways about all sorts of subjects - but I can see the facts for myself - I've got two Polar bears and a Zebra in my garden - they weren't there before this Global warming thing!!

Polar bears sh*t everywhere - but you try telling them not to!!

[big_kev]

BJ,

 

Your Polar Bears must be wimps then if they haven't eaten the Zebra !

 

plus

 

I think Ivor's company may be ever so slightly biased and may not want people to seek alternative sources of fuel....and therefore will say anything to keep people thinking that there is an endless supply of oil and gas.

 

I dont think they would want us to go like South America where most of the vehicles run on ethanol rather than fossil fuels....could be bad for business.

[Bigjeeze]

Kev

 

you haven't answered my questions - Who would you believe and where do you get your data from?

 

 

The Zebra runs faster than the Polar Bears and besides Global warming has made them vegetarians.

[gregers]

besides Global warming has made them vegetarians.

 

bit like cows then adding more methane to the ozone layer

[big_kev]

Kev

 

you haven't answered my questions - Who would you believe and where do you get your data from?

 

 

The Zebra runs faster than the Polar Bears and besides Global warming has made them vegetarians.

 

I believe the scientific evidence which all ( not most, but ALL ) points to global warming being caused by the Sun.

There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

If you know of any evidence which suggests that global warming is caused by anything other than the Sun please let me know.

 

Also I thought Zebras were vegetarians ?

[Bigjeeze]

You still haven't quoted your source for your info - you say it's entirely due to the Sun - wheres your evidence?

 

Zebras are naturally vegetarian - but so then were cows until BSE was given to them by food containing meat based products.

[El Dingo]

You still haven't quoted your source for your info - you say it's entirely due to the Sun - wheres your evidence?

 

Zebras are naturally vegetarian - but so then were cows until BSE was given to them by food containing meat based products.

 

Gentlemen, have a look at these...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/56456.stm

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA203.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...rs-warming.html

 

There is also plenty of (theoretical) evidence that greenhouse gases are to blame...

[big_kev]

You still haven't quoted your source for your info - you say it's entirely due to the Sun - wheres your evidence?

 

Zebras are naturally vegetarian - but so then were cows until BSE was given to them by food containing meat based products.

 

 

First of all, thanks to El Dingo for the quotes.....kind of states the obvious...big yellow thing in sky explains why day is warmer than night.

 

 

 

 

Secondly.....BSE.....get your facts right BSE is caused by the use of certain pesticides.

 

 

Little known facts about BSE.....again I will state the obvious.

 

Sheep get BSE....or the equivalent.

Cows get BSE

Humans get CJD...BSE equivalent ( strangely vegetarians are over 500 times more likely to contract it...check the facts this is true ).

Anyone notice a pattern here....yep vegetarians.

Common sense would dictate that it is therefore caused by eating vegetables not meat.

 

More facts....the density of the occurences of outbreaks of BSE is consistent with the treating for Warble Fly with an organophosphate insecticide.

I am reliably led to believe that there is a link with metallic trace elements as well and it is the compund of these...or possibly one acting as a catalyst that cause the disease.

 

Another fact.....BSE in humans is more prelavant amongst young fit adults rather than older infirm adults or the very young.

An extraordinary proportion of human cases of BSE have been in long term vegetarians and as this upsets the applecart the government dodgy scientists then decided that it must have a very long incubation period up to ten years or more as this would be the last time that the veggies ate meat.

Strangely the people who consistently ate meat at that time and have done since are a lot less likely to contract the disease.

 

Another theory put forward links it again with pesticide but with those used on the skin...ie sheepdip compounds and lotions sprayed on cows to remove ticks or lice....doesn't really fit in with the human vegetarian issue.....however could be linked if veggies are more prone to using insectide shampoos.... headlice etc.

The warble fly issue seems more likely to me.

 

All the sensible evidence points towards pesticides/insecticides as being the root cause.

 

 

 

Anyone know the total headcount of people who have died from CJD/BSE in the UK in the last twenty years.

 

 

 

 

It hasn't reached 200 yet......yes less than 200....less than 10 a year.....

 

 

 

 

Hardly an epedemic is it !

[El Dingo]

This BSE thing is a bit off topic, don't you think? Why not start a new thread titled 'Vegitarianism and links to CJD' so I can ignore it?

 

:P

Edited April 11, 2007 by El Dingo

[Neils TDi again]

Secondly.....BSE.....get your facts right BSE is caused by the use of certain pesticides.

 

 

Common sense would dictate that it is therefore caused by eating vegetables not meat.

 

 

All the sensible evidence points towards pesticides/insecticides as being the root cause.

 

The cause of BSE

 

By the end of 1987 Mr John Wilesmith, the Head of the CVL Epidemiology Department, had concluded that the cause of the reported cases of BSE was the consumption of meat and bone meal (MBM), which was made from animal carcasses and incorporated in cattle feed. This conclusion was correct. It had been reached with commendable speed.

- the source of infection in the MBM was tissues derived from sheep infected with conventional scrapie;

- the MBM had become infectious because rendering methods which had previously inactivated the conventional scrapie agent had been changed.

BSE probably originated from a novel source early in the 1970s, possibly a cow or other animal that developed disease as a consequence of a gene mutation. The origin of the disease will probably never be known with certainty.

The theory that BSE is caused by the application to cattle of organophosphorus pesticides is not viable, although there is a possibility that these can increase the susceptibility of cattle to BSE.

The theory that BSE is caused by an autoimmune reaction is not viable.

 

 

The full and truthful events are here

 

This will give you all some interesting reading.

[mumof4]

Now im sure that i watched a documentory that showed tribes that had cannobolised other peeps, showing signs of CJD.So does it actually go back farther than some peeps think.??

[Bigjeeze]

All of this just proves a very useful point really - you can "prove" anything using statistical data and scientific studies - what you then have to prove is the methodology - You can arrive at a conclusion by lots of routes but it doesn't mean they are correct.

 

You will find just as many eminent scientists on both sides of these arguments (as proven by Neils' message )and yet no definite agreed proof from either.

 

The interent has been an enabler in all sorts of ways but it also gives people the impression that if they collect enough data and that data agrees with their thoughts then it is right. If you were paranoid you might also think that the data published on the Internet was the data "they" wanted you to read and believe.

 

I can, and will, if you insist quote you reams of data on the other side of your argument - but I work for BT I am not a scientist so although I might be well informed or generally aware I am not qualified. If you are then great.

 

 

But I don't think so.

[big_kev]

BJ

 

Got any documentatiuon that was written in the last 10 years ?

 

The "evidence" you are presenting is way out of date.

 

Explain to me why Vegetarians are more likely to contract CJD then ?.........and dont say they are not .....look at the majority of people who have caught it......20 to 30 year olds......mostly veggies.

 

 

Sheep get scrappie from the dodgy pesticide chemicals used in sheepdip.....this mutated to become BSE....now you know the source.

 

Also just noticed you work for BT.....that explains a lot